Ermahgerd Jerver!

This is the second in a series about my hilarious hijinx crossing over from hairy cave dwelling Ubuntu user to latte drinking Windows 8 man-of-win. See the original post here: Windows 8 Madness

So, first thing I’ll really need tomorrow morning is a dev environment. That means the unlovable Eclipse, and then various plugins. And git. And I’ll need to do something about some bash scripts. But first, Eclipse.

This is easy, it’ll be just like ubuntu. Just open up the store, type “Eclipse”, press “Go” or whatever.

Oh.

So how’d I do this in the old days?

Ok, I head over to eclipse.org, download eclipse (like 47 steps later…), just classic eclipse, no bundled stuff.

It comes down as a zip. Extracting that in Win 8 was sort of weird. Maybe I’m missing something.

Then I copy it to a folder somewhere (I use c:\programs, have done since c:\program files got weird). Run eclipse.exe, and then…

Past wars reverberate even now…

Oh sweet baby jeebers. There’s no Java. I have to remember how to do this.

That’s ok, it’ll be in the store…

Google “download java”. End up on Oracle’s website, the Java bit, where Oracle wears Sun’s skin like a suit (It’s very slimming on you Larry).

Which is… what… urm…

sudo apt-forget-this-shit -wtf

Anyway, I downloaded it, ready to install, but that’s enough of this for now. Tomorrow’s coding will have to be with Ubuntu, I’ll try this again tomorrow night.

Meanwhile, it’s time to watch a show with my darling wife. She wants to watch something on ABC iView. Alright, this is easier.

So hey, it’s on the website, and there’s some kind of flash player (actually it’s Adobe’s apparently and I’m not totally loving that). We’ll watch it on that.

Let’s hope tomorrow is better.

 

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Ermahgerd Jerver!

11 thoughts on “Ermahgerd Jerver!

  1. AZ says:

    Some thoughts from someone who uses eclipse for python+java dev professionally:

    1) Eclipse+EGit+Pydev (aptana or standalone) perform very well on a properly-spec’d windows machine — signficantly better, in fact, than my equivalent Mac or Linux box. By “perform”, here, I mean: observed lagginess when eclipse recompiles the world; slowness on auto-complete; time to start new builds or unit tests. We can argue about why this is — Oracle targets Windows for desktop java optimizations? My Dell’s IO drivers are more tested on Windows? I don’t know why, but it’s a clear win for me.

    2) EGit is pretty good for looking at the state of your tree, but I do all of my git command-line work from MSysGit. It’s 98% of what I want from the command line: find, grep, git, sh, cp, etc.

    3) Aptana has been a hog for a long time, but I recently started using it for web front-end development — and it’s really good! Intuitive, parsers and testing for CoffeeScript and JavaScript Just Work, and the standard window layouts didn’t require any tweaking for me.

    So, yes, the hump of turning Windows into a developer box is taller than on Unix, where every user is a developer. It took me about 3 days to get all of my required tools — vim, eclipse, a 64-bit jdk, a few python versions, node.js, &c. installed. But once that’s done, I find the perf better, the window management more to my liking, and the overall workstation experience — including all the other multitasking I need to do in my job, updating jira, producing documentation, coordinating things over email — far superior.

    1. Emlyn says:

      Thanks for those. I haven’t managed to make EGit work properly in Ubuntu so far (can’t get it to pull/push), so I just use command line git. But I’ll have a look at MSysGit.

      I’m assuming you’re using Win 7. I’ve got no arguments with Win 7, it’s a beautiful user experience really (except for the lack of any kind of repos / store). If I couldn’t use Ubuntu for some reason I’d definitely be on Win 7.

      But Win 8 seems to be a different story 🙂

      I’ll be writing more; one of my first followups will be about thinking more windows-native about my dev environment; just humping the same tools from Ubuntu to Win is as dumb as Windows people going to Ubuntu and trying to run all their old stuff using WINE. But for now, I’m just trying to get up and running.

  2. I don’t think you can blame these problems on Windows 8. Windows 8 has finally introduced a platform that allows people to easily find and install applications, a process which could be compared to “sudo apt-get”, but they can’t force the guys behind Java/Eclipse/etc. to support this platform. Also, the platform is quite new. Who knows, maybe in a couple of months, those search results might actually contain what you were looking for.

    There might be another flaw in the Windows 8 store though: The store is mainly meant for Windows RT compatible apps. If you’re lucky, a desktop-only app, e..g Visual Studio, will appear in the store, but only as a link to the apps site. This only removes the process of searching for the app in your browser. You could still imagine ending up on Oracles Java site, scrolling through different irrelevant versions, searching for the only compatible one, and then downloading, installing, etc.

    Thus, I would say that you can’t blame Microsoft for the lack of Java/Eclipse etc. in the store. What you can blame them for though, is providing an inferior experience when installing desktop/”pro” apps, compared to installing RT apps.

    1. Emlyn says:

      I suspect the win 8 store wont contain a lot of Java apps any time soon. I agree with the your last paragraph. I also suspect the store will be useless for techies generally; it’s a shiny shopping mall for regular users. So we’re stuck with humping around looking for msi files, partying like it’s 1999.

  3. The point of the Metro environment in Windows 8 is not that it is to be used as your main environment, with the desktop becoming some kind of secondary environment. Metro is to be used when appropriate, and that appropriate situation is usually going to be on a touch screen, where the apps are touch friendly. Using the browsers within Metro on a desktop and then complaining about them being fullscreen on a desktop monitor is baffling, as is looking for Java in the app store. Were you expecting a touch friendly version of Eclipse? Of Java? This is one of those using a screwdriver as a hammer situation, only you’re actually blogging about your adventures in trying to misuse the tools. It doesn’t really come across as funny as it does misunderstanding. Also, a dev who doesn’t know how to get to cmd, and just started using Ubuntu at Ibex, just doesn’t ring true at all to me. But this is the difference between devs and other types I suppose: Just because you know a lot about computers, doesn’t mean you know a lot about computers, or even understand particular scenarios.

    1. Emlyn says:

      Lol, hello guy.

      Metro: Um, I think they do actually want you to use Metro. The desktop is a fallback, sort of like the dos prompt in Win 95. Do you think it’s on their roadmap to support the desktop “app” in future versions of windows?

      Store: Hell yes, I expect the store to have, you know, useful software in it. Even if it’s just a link to the website, that’s something, you know? Well, it’s pretty useless, but shows they’re thinking about it. Was I expecting a touch friendly version of Eclipse? Not so much, but then I’m not expecting Eclipse to be friendly in any way.

      “Using the browsers within Metro on a desktop and then complaining about them being fullscreen on a desktop monitor is baffling” – Don’t you think that’s how they expect you to use IE 10?

      “and just started using Ubuntu at Ibex” Ouch. Yup, I was a windows droid. I am taking the piss a bit, I do know how to use Windows. But I’m trying to get at something deeper, which is that there are things we take for granted in other environments (repos!) which have been glaringly missing from Windows, and with Windows 8 still are. I’m poking fun at the store because Windows people will tend to say now “hey, we’ve got the same thing as repos, we have a store, and look it’s shiny”. Well, no.

      And yeah, I can figure out how to find the command prompt 😉

      1. Mmm no. They want you to use metro, or whatever they want to call it, on a touchscreen. Most likely tablet sized and rhyming with murface. Which you buy from them preferably. It simply isn’t going to be the place to go to find any traditional desktop apps. Search for desktop apps from the desktop. Use the desktop version of ie 10 (which, annoyingly, isn’t the same thing or even sharing the same history/cache etc as the modernMetro version) on the desktop. It is the same for chrome. ModernMetro chrome. Desktop chrome. Both strangers to each other on the same machine. All the apps in modernMetro are about touch. The browsers, the tiles, the games, the drawing apps, the shopping apps like newegg. It isnt like ubuntu’s universal search, or a repository. You should hardly be entering modernMetro at all on a desktop, except for accessing things like settings and control panel…or if you’re bored…or i suppose, if you’re doing what your doing here. I’d say ubuntu had something better, but the way it is now in 12.10 you end up with results showing software, web searches, and brassieres from amazon. Which just looks silly. Or looks just as silly. Or both. It’s more than likely you are perfectly funny, and i’m abrasive and easily irritated. So carry on. I’ll just watch and shake my head.

        1. Umm… your logic is faulty. If they didn’t want their users to use the Metro interface, then they should probably done something about it being the default interface. Perhaps hidden it and show the other interface by default or something? You know. Would’ve made sense. The “desktop interface” is actually just a Metro app (and the IE10 desktop is an app within that app… Appception!). If they were serious about having two different interfaces, you’d think they would make two separate interfaces instead of having one being an app in the other.

          Ubuntu 12.10 doesn’t really represent Ubuntu, in my opinion. The “real” Ubuntu’s are the LTS’s, the other one’s are just betas, really. So if you’re going to complain, complain about 12.04. I find that to be a rock solid release. If you disagree about this, well, then that’s your prerogative.

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